Discussion Area for INLT Post-IGC Workshop paper on Enhancing Employment, Key Skills and the Curriculum
read paper - Enhancing employment, key skills and the curriculum in Geography
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Comments / Threads So Far
- Comments on 'Enhancing employment, key skills and the curriculum in Geography' (from Mick Healey)
- Comments on 'Enhancing employment, key skills and the curriculum in Geography' (from Janice Monk)
- Comments on 'Enhancing employment, key skills and the curriculum in Geography' (from Janice Monk)
- Comments on 'Enhancing employment, key skills and the curriculum in Geography' (from Osvaldo Muñiz Solari)
- Comments on 'Enhancing employment, key skills and the curriculum in Geography' (from Ruth Healey)
- Comments on 'Enhancing employment, key skills and the curriculum in Geography' (from Paul Rooney)
- Comments on 'Enhancing employment, key skills and the curriculum in Geography' (from Sharon Gedye)
- Comments on 'Enhancing employment, key skills and the curriculum in Geography' (from Artimus Keiffer)
- Comments on 'Enhancing employment, key skills and the curriculum in Geography' (from Sally Edmondson)
- Comments on 'Enhancing employment, key skills and the curriculum in Geography' (from Barbara Gambini)
Comments on "Enhancing Employment, Key Skills
and the Curriculum"
From: Mick Healey - University of Gloucestershire, UK
Date: 25 July 2004
Posting: This outline paper provides a very useful context
for the debate in that it raises the meaning of key terminology and discusses
their use in a UK context. What I think is needed now is for those based in
other HE contexts to comment on similarities and differences. Also to bring
the debate alive the full article needs examples, perhaps in boxes, of specific
attempts by geographers in different countries to address these issues to
enhance the employability of their students. Pauline Kneale and Brian Chalkley
have lots of examples from the UK, which could be used. Others I am sure could
provide instances from different countries. The paper by Le Heron and Hathaway
(2000), from the last INLT Symposium, provides an indication of how some of
these issues have been tackled in New Zealand and the US.
Le Heron, R and Hathaway, J T (2000) An international perspective on developing skills through geography programmes for employability and life: narratives from New Zealand and the United States, Journal of Geography in Higher Education 24(2), 271-276
Comments on "Enhancing
Employment, Key Skills and the Curriculum"
From: Janice Monk (University of Arizona, USA)
Date: 25 July 2004
Posting: As I work my way through the papers, I am struck
by the extent to which the issue of the changing context of higher education
in relation to the state,permeates or at least is raised, across most pieces.
Perhaps we should have some space for reflection on the cross-cutting themes,
as well as discussion of individual papers.
Comments on "Enhancing
Employment, Key Skills and the Curriculum"
From: Janice Monk (University of Arizona, USA)
Date: 30 July 2004
Posting:
1. I am pleasd to see that this paper reflects on concerns about what "employability" means -- and to whom. It complements the brief issue raised but nor developed in the Social Transformation paper that juxtaposes education for employment with "liberal" education, to use the US term. Reflecting on David DiBiase's comment on the Social Transformation paper, I think many of us would agree that we would like to see a "both/and" approach, rather than an "either/or." We would like students to develop skills -- technical and transferable, but to see that they are also educated to be reflective citizens with critical and creative capacities.
In my own program in Women's Studies, recent discussions with organizations offering employment education for disadvantaged women (e.g., those who have recently been incarcerated, given the epidemic of incarceration in the US, and the lack of attention to re-integration into the community), emphasized that the agencies saw the needs for fostering critical thinking, self-confidence etc., over basic technical skills. Perhaps this is not the student body we have in mind in our discussions, but it does speak to the heterogeneity concerns raised briefly in this paper.
2. Is it an assumption of the paper, and of our discussions in general, that we are focusing on an undergraduate degree in geography? Since I am involved with the Geography Faculty Development Alliance (GFDA), directed by Ken Foote through the University of Colorado, Boulder, and will also be teaching a professional development seminar for MA/PhD students in geography at the U. of Arizona this coming year, I also think of "employability" in terms of postgraduate education. How are we preparing these students for teaching, publishing, grant writing, dealing with career-related ethics and politics, time management etc.? It is clear from the enthusiastic response from advanced doctoral candidates and early career faculty that there is a great interest in professional help/support on these dimenstions. Approximately 150 early career academic geographers have participated in GFDA summer programs over the last three years, and there are waiting lists for places.
Comments on "Enhancing
Employment, Key Skills and the Curriculum"
From: Osvaldo Muñiz Solari (Universidad de La Serena,
Chile)
Date: 30 July 2004
Posting: I would like to make some comments on two issues.
Is there a difference between 'employment' and 'employability' ? It is important to clarify that employability is a functional concept, since it carries not only a condition of personal attributes but also a constant process of effort and perfection. Employability awareness enhances the ability to seek, secure, and continue to be successful at work, but this success is obtained through continuing sacrifice . However, the ability to do a good job and seek for success depends on the work environment. This ability could be easily jeopardized by difficult or hostil environment, such as insufficient economic conditions to do a good job or permanent professional harassment . This is a very important factor when geographers talk about employability in developing countries. Therefore, 'employment' for geographers in developing countries is the door to allow them to enter to the narrow space for success, often highly insecure and unstable. 'Employability is the ability to be successful and the ability to survive because the environment is often a complex arena filled by several professionals, namely architects, engineers, who invade and dispute the disciplinary boundaries of geography. Geographers fight to keep their own professional identity (Capel, 1998) and 'employability' becomes a very complex concept. By exchanging ideas based on experiences from different countries we could develop a shared concept of 'employability' for geographers.
Are 'skills' the answer to employability? Yes, they are. However, we must understand that key and core skills along with transferable skills must be guided by an international perspective. Local and regional perspectives are important, but often guided by fragmented geography. This is particularly the case in South America (Santos et al, 2001) where geography in higher education adopts certain kind of specialization to fulfill the market demands. An international perspective is, therefore, urgently needed with a special approach based on long term global issues, mutual understanding, global citizenship and collaborative learning.
Capel, H. (1998) Una Geografía para el Siglo XXI (A Geography for
the XXI Century) Scripta Nova. Revista electrónica de Geografía
y Ciencias Sociales 19
Available at: http://www.geoamerica.org/pub/capel_una_geografia_para_el_sigloXXI.htm
Santos, et al (2001) O Papel Ativo da Geografia: Um Manifesto (The Active
Role of Geography: A Manifest) Geocrítica
Available at: http://www.ub.es/geocrit/b3w-270.htm
Comments on "Enhancing
Employment, Key Skills and the Curriculum"
From: Ruth Healey
Date: 30 July 2004
Posting: As the direct cost of higher education to students
increases many of them feel there is a need for them to receive a subsequent
reward for their time and money by attaining a 'better' job than that which
they may have got without a degree. However, once they have graduated they
find that these jobs are not as easy to come by as the university prospectuses
suggested!
As a continuing academic student I would agree with the quote from Johnson (1997) that "geography is an academic discipline, not a profession", in that if my degree had been focussed around gaining me a 'good' job when I left university rather than the subject itself I would not have enjoyed it in the way that I did.
I would suggest that there should be optional modules for students to take depending on which routes they wish to pursue. Perhaps those who have a keen interest in the subject could opt for more discipline based courses, whereas those who are doing geography because they want a degree could choose more work based modules. Or alternatively the careers service or people with specific experience within the world of employment (outside academia) could provide compulsory although non-assessed modules in order to address this issue. Academics who have been in the world of academia the majority of their lives, may not be the most suitable to teach about employability.
Comments on "Enhancing
Employment, Key Skills and the Curriculum"
From: Paul Rooney - Liverpool Hope University College, UK
Date: 5 August 2004
Posting: Thank you for the comments so far on the paper.
They are all very constructive and will be used to take the work forward.
I agree with the comments from Mick healey - we need to 'internationalise'
the paper. The draft I prepared was, necessarily, from a limited UK perspective.
Can others please help out with international examples, case studies etc?
On this note, thanks to Osvaldo - the experience from Chile is very interesting.
Perhaps we could pursue the international understandings of the difference
between 'employment' and 'employability'? Osvaldo raises some pertinent issues
from a developing country perspective. He provides some references - can anyone
else contribute references please? If we can gather more international contributions
perhaps we can move towards developing a shared concept of 'employability'
for geographers?
The comments by Ruth Healey are interesting as they come from a recent undergraduate. This is a very important group to listen to in the context of this paper - after all, they are the ones who have the recent experience of the course and are now 'out there' facing employment (or not ). I do not come down so clearly as Ruth regarding 'discipline or profession' - I think all geography undergraduate (and postgrad) degrees should include aspects that increase student employability, but I also recognise that there should be flexibility in the extent and emphasis in which they do this according to the type of geography and national situation. I am worried that leaving 'work-based' modules or similar to non-subject specialists as this might cause problems. Geographers often struggle trying to figure what geography is - how will a non-subject specialist handle this problem when working with geographers? Will they really understand the people, subject and geographical skills available for employment? I do agree, however, that academics who have been in academia most of their lives may also not be best placed to teach employability, unless they are teaching about being employed as an academic. I speak as someone with 12 years industry experience and 7 years in academia. 'Put you best foot forward' - some staff will be better placed and experienced at teaching employability than others - but they will need to have professional development. I feel that if I didn't undertake consultancy I would become stale in terms of the world of work. I also sit o a national committee of the Institute of Ecology an Environmental Management - the professional body in my line of work and research. Staff involved in employability should be supported (fees and time) to engage with professional institutes.
The comments by Janice Monk make interesting reading. I support the 'both/and' approach. There is no one way to employability. The paper perhaps does, inadvertently, place an emphasis on undergraduate studies. This was not intentional. I do think that the issues relate equally to postgrads- and also those not pursuing a full undergraduate degree - perhaps a Certificate or Diploma in Higher education (equivalent to first and second year undergrad studies). Finally, I would like to support her call for space for reflection on the cross-cutting themes.
Comments on "Enhancing
Employment, Key Skills and the Curriculum"
From: Sharon Gedye - LTSN-GEES Subject Centre, University
of Plymouth
Date: 10 August 2004
Posting: Many academics seem to think that embedding employability
skills in the curriculum will reduce/harm/detract from subject teaching. My
experience in collecting examples of practice of teaching to enhance employability
in the Geography, Earth and Environmental Science disciplines shows the opposite.
Teaching that develops employability qualities (e.g. self-confidence, self-management,
communication skills etc) often does so in a creative and effective way –
stimulating, motivating and enhancing subject learning at the same time. Many
of the skills and attributes that appear on lists of ‘what employers
want’ are qualities that we as academics value to. In our own employment
we can recognise our use of the whole array of employment skills - so why
should we only expect our students to develop ‘intellectual skills’?
I recognise the important difference between employment rates and employability. However, I do think we need to be mindful of the fact that our subject will be judged on the employment rates of our recent graduates (through the proliferation of league tables). With students/parents paying ever more for a higher education, choices on what to study will become increasingly based on apparent subject employment performance. How does our subject shape up? In the UK, not that well!
Comments on "Enhancing
Employment, Key Skills and the Curriculum"
From: Artimus Keiffer - Wittenberg University, USA
Date: 13 August 2004
Posting: I feel this paper does a good job in outlining discussion
topics for the group at the workshop. Just a few personal observations after
reading through the comments. The first is that Geography is taught in different
ways in different places. When i gave a paper at the CAG (Canadian Association
of Geographers) on Utopian Influences I was asked how is this Geography? I
knew it was from my definition, but in Canada it is much different. The topic
really couldn't be used for anything and could offer little in "applied"
geography. After some research, I found that a large proportion of Geography
in Canada is "applied" and that there is little room for a lot of
research that might be considered useless in the job market. Although I can
appreciate preparing students to find jobs in Canada, it seems that there
is a definite reason one might major in Geography at any level because they
know what type of job they can get when they graduate. In the U.S. it seems
that many students don't like Geography going into college because the stereotype
is one of memorizing countries and capitals and rivers, something not many
of us care to do and that is why we have maps. Once college-level geography
is explained and how it is related to other fields and can assist in finding
jobs, interest picks up (providing students enroll in Geography courses in
the first place). So the question of "what can I do with a degree in
Geography?" is one of major concern.
The second observation has to do with how we assure students that by taking
certain courses they can compete in the job market. I have seen the shifting
paradigm to computerized Geography, and in many ways the discipline is on
the cutting edge of technology using satellites, remote sensing, GIS and artificial
intelligence. But what of the human-ness of the field? One of our main all
encompassing, sub-disciplines is Human Geography. How human is it when we
lecture on economics and politics and demographics? When faceless numbers
become yet another tool to enhance a data base there is little human-ness
about it.
I feel a Geographer is not equipped to do spatial analysis unless they have
some idea what the numbers they are putting into a computer to generate an
applied document actually mean. Experience in such life issues matters both
to the student and the instructor. The other literature i have been reading
deals with creativity and the ability to offer an analysis not just of the
data, but how to find options based on the conclusion drawn from the data.
I find very few students, in geography or otherwise, able to do this. To be
employable, I feel, means that you have the tools and the experience to offer
a creative analysis to a situation. To be employed means you know which button
to push when the software you are using asks you a question. Perhaps this
is where we need to draw the line when it comes to sending students to potential
employers and offering them a reference.
If we are to remain a viable force in academia and overcome the stereotypical
geography format, we need to put some developmental courses into the curriculum.
Comments on "Enhancing
Employment, Key Skills and the Curriculum"
From: Sally Edmondson - Liverpool Hope, UK
Date: 13 August 2004
Posting: I think the paper asks very appropriate questions
about the nature of geography as taught on undergraduate courses in the UK
- and comes at a time when many institutions are seriously re-considering
their course provision in the light of changing recruitment patterns and the
fluctuating popularity of various subjects (for example the popularity of
'forensic' courses and the current low applications to 'environmental' courses).
In spite of our alacrity to provide courses that develop students'potential
for the 'real world', it would outwardly seem that fashionable trends are,
at least to some extent, driving the market place and thus course provision.
We continue to be confident in geography courses developing useful citizens and employees, but there is a danger that this might lead us to stay within our comfort zone. Venturing outside of this zone, however, would mostly seem to involve some degree of specialisation, and also loss of the position of geography as necessarily integrating social, political, economic, physical and environmental aspects of the world. To put it bluntly, if we develop from geography, where would we go? - and are we going there to respond to trends in fashion (the market place / student numbers) rather than a response to the needs of employers?
If we do go down more specialised degree routes, then generic skills of lifelong learning that allow students to develop their knowledge / understanding / skills base as their employment demands will surely continue to be important.
One aspect not considered by the paper is that of the role of more career-orientated postgraduate training such as masters' courses. Is it here that more highly specialised training should be acquired. It should be noted that the traditional subject of 'geography' provides and excellent springboard for a wide range of vocationally orientated masters' programmes; and also that it is now very common for students to continue on to this level of academic course. The UK government is aiming for 50% of the population entering higher education. Could it be that this postgraduate level of course is now equivalent to that of the 5% of the population who entered higher education in the 1960s, in terms.
The extent to which there is commonality of these issues internationally will be fascinating.
Comments on "Enhancing
Employment, Key Skills and the Curriculum"
From: Barbara Gambini - University of Urbino (Italy)
Date: 13 August 2004
Posting: Following paul Rooney's and Mick Healey's suggestions,
I will provide my own my personal viewpoint on the Italian employment/employability
situation. Some Italian colleagues may disagree partially or totally. This
is a relatively long contribution, but if you take the time to read it, I
promise it will make UK geographers (and probably all others) feel a lot better.
Traditionally, intellectual work in Italy was regulated by professional registers, which were meant to grant professionalism and protect the interests of customers, the collectivity and professionals, but which often ended up being powerful and exclusive lobbies (Citarella, 2000, p. 87). Geographers were among those intellectual professionals who lacked such an organisation. Added to their deliberately limited operative vocation (partly stigmatised after some geographers' involvement in landscape transformation during the fascist era), the vastness and variety of their field of interest, their fragmented and therefore feeble associative network, this contributed to their status being less then obvious to most of the general public. In such fields as land or urban plannning, moreover, geographers' competences overlapped with those of experts with higher visibility and popularity and a stronger professional position (architects, economists, sociologists, and more recently environmental scientists). Geography graduates, finally, were not numerous, with only two universities offering geography majors in the whole country - which, although limiting infra-disciplinary competition, also further limited the specialised offer and visibility of the category. A degree in geography, for instance, was often not included among those allowing access to competitive examinations, even in relevant fields. Employment was therefore mainly in teaching positions (primary to secondary schools or universities), with other professions being dependant upon personal initiative rather then institutionalised channels.
While still being subject to the competition of other experts in traditional occupations, geographers have not been too prompt in securing those new niches and sectors opened by the fast differentiating market (ibid. p. 93).
Given these less then rosy premises, geographers are taking several steps to improve their general status: in land planning and management, by setting up an inter-disciplinary association (AIE-GeOPAT) entitled to issue Certificates of Professional Quality, and aimed to monitor the existence of formative prerequisites, promote continuing education and an improvement of the status of its members, provide counseling to young graduates; more universities are now offering geography majors; three sections at the upcoming national conference (September 2004) are specifically dedicated to analise new disciplinary perspectives (geography and land governance; geographical theories, institutions, models; evolving academic structure); existing periodicals are renewing their format and traits (Ambiente Società Territorio). Although praiseworthy, these efforts are too recent and sparse to have changed the situation: visibility, employment and an adequate status are the priority before systematically thinking of employability. For this and other issues, it is still easier for Italian geographers to look at the international scene and benchmark against foreign standards then to structurally intervene in the national disciplinary environment.
References:
Citarella F., "Professione Geografo", Cultura cartografica e culture
del territorio, national Conference, Sassari, 2000, pp. 87-101
http://www.aiig.it/
http://www.societageografica.it/
http://www.societastudigeografici.it/
http://www.agei.org
http://www.aie.geopat.it